probably would not want to rebuild to configure something.
It builds in a second. About DWM. It’s 2k lines of C code, all they do is basic functionality. It’s not some cumbersome process of setting up an environment, and then looking at running lines of compiler output as if you were some fscking Neo installing Gentoo.
To remain polite, I’ll note that this subject has nothing to do with “your average user” or anything else connected to selling something useless to somebody who doesn’t care. All this grandma and average user and other talk is absolutely out of place about tools never intended to be sold on a market or be used by everyone. You are not required to use suckless tools in the first place.
Something having an X-Wing pic keeps out a lot of people too, cause not everyone likes Star Wars. What’s your point?
If you’ve seen suckless tools, the whole point is that they are rudimentary. DWM is one header file and one source code file of ~2k lines.
It’s not lazy because having a config file wouldn’t add anything to using those things, and it’s not elitism or gross because it’s not hard for those who understand why’d they use suckless tools at all. It also contributes to atmosphere.
FFS, please stop trying to press other people to do things your way, that’s what’s gross.
Linux is built on the foundation of cooperation and mutual aid
It’s very dangerous to make casual users and activists and someone like me equal to people doing actual work.
As demonstrated by RedHat-fed activists abusing that equality again and again, making “the community” appear what RedHat wants it to be.
Besides, if we ever hope for “the year of Linux desktop” to be a real thing, we have to be inviting.
You know who’s not being inviting? Microsoft and Apple. The former just informs you that the PCs you can buy come with Windows that version, the latter just shows how damn fscking important and rich you’ll look if you buy their stuff.
The problems are all technical (with “user-friendliness” and “just works” movement as it exists contributing to them and not solving them), if they didn’t exist, nobody would care that the community is grumpy.
Yes, they will have dumb and silly questions. Yes, many of such quesrions have already been answered before, and yes, they could have searched better.
It’s fine to be dumb and ask questions, but with Unix-likes it’s somehow common that newbies first ask for advice, then get it, then react with “that’s dumb, should have been done like in Windows” and that tends to irritate people. And sometimes they want to do things the hard way, but blame the system for them lacking knowledge to do that.
If we want for all our favorite programs and games to finally become Linux native, if we want to ensure Linux experience becomes smooth, if we don’t want to be seen as a community of red-eyed nerds, we need all those people in.
Something is wrong. Amateur radio and in general knowing stuff about radio being associated with a “community of red-eyed nerds” was a fact, but never prevented people from using radio in the 90s and 80s. Most people can’t do electric design for their apartment, yet they use electricity.
And there’s no detriment to this greater than constant infighting and elitism, than forcing people to bury down the wikis instead of providing useful support, and so on.
So why don’t BSDs have that problem?
That’s a rhetorical question, because in BSDs they don’t slap layers of layers of tools intended to make things “easier” and parallel ways to do the same. Linux user-friendliness movement is doomed in the way that it’s not aimed at making kernel interfaces and basic tooling simpler, it aims at making graphical and scripted slap-ons that make things kinda work. All with different logic, taking the nerves out of newbies, and at the same time those newbies can’t exactly tell what’s wrong.
And infighting and elitism are because it’s hard for everyone to admit they are all wrong, all sides. The “elitist” side, because yep, newbies shouldn’t struggle with setting up sound where in BSDs that’s kinda easy, for example. The “newbie-friendly” side, because they are focusing on the wrong thing.
The development process is the problem. Both with the kernel and the userland and with major DEs.
Do you follow the same principle when seeing anti-vaxxer posts en masse? Or any other fillers?
I usually answer a few questions with advice and then leave, when the op genuinely just uses other people as ChatGPT. But I understand those who start making jokes.
It’s hard making things simple, it requires research with focus groups, constant testing, firm guidelines based on the results.
They’ve done a lot of that in the middle 90s to middle 00s, when after things moving fast most GUIs were so atrocious it was just necessary. Thus classic Windows versions and classic MacOS (till 9) and Amiga Workbench and even Windows XP are very usable. Even OpenLook and Motif are not so bad.
Today we have a lot of network effects and inability to just drop something we hate to use, thus the market incentive for a similar widespread optimization of GUIs doesn’t form.
So - both KDE and Gnome today are horrible, but Gnome folks are at least trying very hard. I generally like KDE more, but their ergonomics were always overloading me as an ASD person to the degree of being exhausted by 15 minutes of using it.
Gnome is less overloading, but - use of titlebars to show custom controls for every application is good for wow-effect, but bad when you want to expect only one function from titlebar in every application. And the paradigm of Windows taskbar or Motif icons or something else for hidden windows being indicated and immediately accessible is good. If they don’t like taskbars, they could add something like iconbox in TWM or old FVWM or such. And a more Spartan (like usual) application menu.
TLDR, between imitating Apple/touchscreen UIs and ergonomics Gnomers have to make a compromise, or pick one lane. Right now it’s quite irritating when in some place they pick the latter and in some the former.
The biggest barrier to widespread adoption is the portion of the toxic parts of the general community.
You should be careful with that. Because what exactly are those toxic parts, when deciding upon strategy of fighting against them, might be understood differently.
That’s why most elitists on Linux spaces don’t know WTF they are talking about, but the elitists who deed have been pressed out earlier.
Also I really don’t see any problem with pointing someone to a place in a well-written manual. After answering a few simple questions, of course, and seeing that they don’t understand hints that all this is documented specifically to avoid annoying other people.
You need to edit a C header file used as a config file, and run make and use the resulting executable file. That hardly keeps out anyone.
At the same time DWM is very convenient, and so was WMII.
I understand these people lack power elsewhere in their lives and want to be powerful where they believe themselves to be experts, but it’s a real pity they express it with a complete lack of empathy.
You seem bitter.
There are two kinds of Linux elitists - 1) those who know nothing, but have recently discovered Unices and think they are all-powerful and there’s the right way to go and simple solutions and everything is clear, and the future is bright, 2) those who are tired to rephrase the manuals and want newcomers to sometimes think why they don’t expect Russinovitch-level knowledge of Windows internals from other normal usual Windows users, but with Linux every stupid thing they want to do should be baby-fed to them down to that deep level.
I really hate the first kind, it’s the type who think making yet another “nice wallpapers” Ubuntu-based distribution makes them cooler than me, or that Wayland is already good enough for everything and my arguments that there’s no FVWM under Wayland should be disproved by myself doing my own google search, and so on.
The second kind is normal for every area of human existence. You don’t have to know everything, but also nobody owes you accepting you as equal to those who do, or your opinion, and nobody owes you the benefits of knowledge, and nobody owes you making things work the exact way you want.
TLDR - community members are as valuable as their contributions. If someone’s contribution is reposting Nixie Pixel videos (or whatever is their alternative now), then no matter how “not elitist and nice” they are, they are not very useful compared to those with knowledge. But if someone’s being elitist without any knowledge (as is typical among Arch Linux users), then maybe they are even less valuable.
Which specifically would that be? Surely you can explain that if you can evaluate my “agenda” as ugly.
Maybe what I wrote meant literally what I wrote. That an agenda is always ugly. People who want to fix the world via right kinds of propaganda seem to dislike that.
Reaction: mixed.
Why: fruit of a poisoned tree.
Elaboration: you want art promoting good things to be sincere, because if it’s not sincere, then it’s not promoting anything, like Disney’s “kinda diversity-aimed” actions toward Star Wars ; art is sincere when it’s not pushed ; when something is promoted by an agency, it’s pushed, even if those making decisions and those making said art share the idea, the former give the latter an order and make it their job.
Context\apology: I think the same about Soviet propaganda art, it may be promoting something good sometimes, but that effect of hierarchy can be felt ; or a few recent movies made about the Armenian Genocide, all intended as a political message about, well, leaving said process unfinished and thus are not interesting as art ; or about FOSS propaganda with almost no effect, if someone remembers those videos about Linux Mint and those FOSS bloggers like Nixie Pixel, that kinda stuff.
That’s not what their roots are, that’s the branches that became prevalent in every one mentioned (Judaism least of all, but with the state of Israel existing there are attempts to make Jewish religion suck just as badly as others).
Say, gnostic sects of Christianity and Judaism had this sometimes inverted, sometimes different from how you describe it. Natural world was considered wonderful, but bigger than our existence, in some, and the way to divine was to take off your mortal existence, like clothes, and embrace it in full. In Judaism it’s almost mainstream that natural sexuality is good and actually sacred when in marriage, and only outside of marriage is it bad, but not on the degree of murder or theft.
I’m not very knowledgeable on Islam, but I think even Shia Islam is not so cruel on that part, though since Iran is Shia, I guess nobody will believe me. Alawis being massacred right now have a pretty tolerant to life religion, and Druze too, though they have that weird relationship with death similar to Latin American Catholics. Smaller branches like Nizari-Ismaili are very tolerant. It’s just that Islamic mainstream of today is barbaric genocidal Wahhabism or Salafism, and generally Sunni Islam is not nice.
My point was - restrictive rules correlate somehow with strong organization, so such branches win the struggle for power.
I think at some point they were on the same level, then something happened and murder became less important, maybe with justification that it’s not shown directly, or that it’s aimed at bad guys somewhere far away, or I dunno. Outright gore like in Total Recall subway shootout scene became what’s equal to pair of tits.
Especially in a country that’s known worldwide for its hyper sexuality
After all the hentai in the interwebs and some Shaman King and Naruto characters, I’m not sure.
Where does this prudishness come from?
Christianity, I’d guess.
What Obama did should be judged by what he really did, not promised, not described, not was close to do.
You can say whatever you want if it depends on majority which won’t ever support you, and then claim that was your real intention.
This is simpler than average intrigue between friends or at workplace, or even of deciding whose turn it is to go for groceries, and politics are not simpler.
Yes, surely people capable of denying someone popular are soft removed. It’s the opposite, they impose their will upon the party. Evil, not removed.
All the non sequiturs and irrelevant historical quotes are just burying this very clear statement that you’re racist.
Using Latin words doesn’t make you intelligent, and saying something is irrelevant doesn’t make it so.
Anyway, you haven’t even started noticing what I actually wrote. I have executive function problems and argue in the interwebs too much, so - fool blocked.
Well, you might spend an hour or two thinking on what I wrote instead of being rude to people better than you.
Than today’s Mac and Windows - sure. But take w2k or macos 9 - and hell no. Those are much cleaner and more consistent.
Evil or not, w2k is something everyone should thank MS for, it’s really how it should be.