cross-posted from: https://linux.community/post/2362831
I don’t know how extended this is, but apparently there are car makers selling cars with no keys. Instead you download a proprietary app and use it to access your car.
I like being practical and talking to a car to turn the volume up or down, to open the door or to turn the temperature higher are things I don’t need nor want. Give me mechanical levers, reachable stalks and no proprietary bloatware. I don’t need a movie theater on wheels.
Imagine an early 2000s car running on an electric motor. That’s what I want.
yo SAAAAAAAAAAAME
and also actual fucking buttons switches knobs and dials for HVAC and media control
not to mention a normal fucking PRNDL shifter for selecting how I want it to move
why is this so gods damned much to ask for -_-Kia and Hyundai EVs tend to have physical controls for most things
But how much are they tracking you?
What’s a PRNDL?
Park, Reverse, Neutral, Drive, Low (gear). The 5 “standard” positions the standard automatic gearshift levers could be set to. Versus the weird stuff like dials or push-buttons that are incredibly hard to operate by muscle-memory if you aren’t looking right at them.
EVs have no gears, they don’t need this stuff. Or they have a manual simulation.
EVs have no gears
GOOD THING THESE AREN’T GEARS THEN, FUCKO
THEY’RE MODE SELECTIONSEVs do, in fact, Park.
EVs can, in fact, Reverse.
EVs must, in fact, need to be capable of rolling free (Neutral) and it would be BETTER if you could do that by disconnecting the drive train to eliminate the risk of the “regenerative braking” system overloading its electrical system and making the battery explode.
EVs furthermore OBVIOUSLY Drive.“Low” in the traditional sense is clearly not necessary, obviously, but it could be nice to have a mode selection for what people have sometimes described as “single pedal driving” where regeneration is configured so aggressively that letting up on the accelerator pedal will cause the car to decelerate rapidly without the need to touch the brake pedal.
Just gotta say I’m here for this energy
thank you for understanding the intended tone (and kinda just a little bit making my day :3)
Yeah, actually a low mode would be useful for exactly this, in exactly the same use cases as for ICE cars. Whatever my regen is configured as, if I’m heading down a steep icy hill, maybe I could use an easy way to maximize regen. Heck maybe my battery is not warmed up yet so I don’t have effective regen, but I could really use it for that hill even if that battery can’t use it
It seems to me that you don’t understand how EVs work. They don’t have gears (usually) and they don’t have a constantly running combustion engine.
Neutral and park (park is just neutral with a break automatically applied) do not exist in EVs, because EVs don’t have a constantly running engine. You only need neutral to disengage the clutch to prevent its wear during stops, because always running engine means that the car is always moving. That’s not happening in EVs.
And you don’t need low/boost because EVs don’t have gears.
So, you only have reverse and drive.
Huh, my EV also has neutral and park. It can be very useful to yet the wheels freewheel or to lock the wheels. However no PRNDL shifter control for usability
You can’t freewheel on EV, there’s no mechanism for that. You can have a software simulation though, but it’s not needed for anything.
This is forever burned into my head. I’ve not really watched that series and I remember nothing else. Just PRNDL.
As others have mentioned, it refers to the gear shift. But it actually has a meaningful origin - many years ago, the gear order was not agreed upon. Many cars had a gear shift that was PNDLR (which I’ve heard pronounced “pendler”), where reverse was at the end. At the time, it was useful to tell the difference between a PRNDL and a PNDLR shift.
Of course that was all before 1971, when PRNDL was mandated by the US government.
GN has some “regular car” EV options available. The Bolt EUV and the Equniox EV start at $27k and $35k USD. Both come with a panel of physical buttons and come with a traditional physical metal key.
Bolt:
Equinox:
The Bolt EUV is as close as you’ll get with new vehicles as far as I know in North America.
You can find a Nissan Leaf, they started production in 2010. But from what I heard the batteries degrade quickly due to how they were designed.
The Leaf is being redesigned to finally modernize it. The new one coming out later this year should be better now.
That is what I am hoping/waiting for. I’ve been looking to switch to an EV for a few years now but have been turned off by the price, lack of physical buttons, and poor battery performance in cheaper models. I am praying the redesigned Leaf will clear all 3.
It’s a suv now, no longer a hatchback
Everything is an SUV now… :(
The last Bolt model year was 2023 - you can’t really find new ones at dealer lots anymore. There is supposed to be a new version coming at some point, but no official details or timeframe yet.
What car maker is not providing keys? As far as I know, app control is optional.
Many car “keys” are wireless tokens nowadays (tbf I’m not sure of the security compared to traditional keys, I only heard some brands like Kias were very easy to steal in the last few years).
Mostly we want a million buttons with tactile feedback, I’m with OP! I would also like an EV “econobox”: a sensible shitty boxy lightweight car with a small LiFePo4 battery that charges fast. Spend 100$ more dollars on the charger and cooling goddammit, or make THAT upgradable!
The Kia’s that where easy to steal used cheap keys though, the push to start Kia’s where not being stolen.
Thanks good to know
Unfortunately not all theives understood the difference, so while your car might not be stolen, you could still end up with a smashed window.
My mate ended up with a smashed window and fucked up ignition only to have his car NOT stolen because it’s a standard hahaha
Not only that but make it cheaper and give me the option of power windows or not. I can crank my own windows up and down, I don’t need it “motorized”. Let’s make cars available to the masses again.
The reason there aren’t anymore crank windows isn’t because it’s a mandatory upsell, it’s because motorized is probably as cheap or even cheaper thanks to modern manufacturing and the preference of 99% of other people.
Yup, now that they are so widespread and reliable putting a cheap motor and wiring it up is most likely cheaper than designing and testing a mechanical connection for specific models.
Rivians come with only a single key fob, and it’s not all that reliable either. Two “key cards” but those suck in their own ways
At least in the US, You will struggle to find a car newer than like 2015 that doesn’t have a screen, and it’s basically impossible to find one newer than 2018 because it’s mandated at the federal level to have a backup camera installed.
you may not find full on infotainment system, there will be some sort of screen involved. But many manufacturers go by the methodology that if they’re installing a screen anyway for backup cam they might as well just go the whole nine yards and have it be a full-on infotainment system
Sadly I don’t have any recommendations, but I’m considering taking this plunge as well so I’ll keep my eye out on this thread
One of the reasons is that in i think 2018, they made backup cameras mandatory.
EDIT: 2018 NOT 2016
I’m unclear if you’re the reason Pika has an edit to their post, or if you just missed the fact that they said that. Although they said 2018, you said 2016.
I edited a few times within the first few minutes of posting it, so it’s also possible that it didn’t Federate the changes, but no I haven’t edited it since the first five ish minutes of the post
That is my bad it is 2018.
Dacia Spring is literally 2000 car converted to EV. I love it.
EV Conversion Kits is probably your best bet.
I would like to know more.
There’s a lot of EV kits and also people converting petrol cars for a living, f.e. this little beetle:
https://youtu.be/kYmMrMEwl94?t=282Just search for <Car maker> <Car model> <Car model year> EV Conversion Kit and you’ll find a lot of hits such as the first hit on duckduckgo for VW Golf 2005 EV Conversion Kit that may be bought with or without installation:
https://ev-evolution.eu/solution/volkswagen-golf-ev-conversion-kit/
Sounds like you’re looking for something that only exists in the used market, which may be your plan anyway.
The Mitsubishi imiev never took off, but it’s probably the least-frilly EV you can buy. But as Doug Demuro will tell you, it’s a bit quirky. Assuming you’re American, yes, is was released in the States but no, you probably wouldn’t have heard of it. I’m not sure I’d recommend it necessarily, but it’s an option
That said, I have a Chevy Bolt. Pretty easy to find on the used market (and with that, get service if you need it) no dumb features nobody asked for. It does have Android Auto/Apple Car Play, which is actually pretty awesome (I believe it’s the 2022+ models with wireless car play). Their base models are pretty barebones (some don’t even have DC fast charging, watch out for that) but higher trims do have some nice features to them. It’s kind of a car you’ve seen on the road but didn’t know you actually wanted.
By the way, backup cameras became mandated a while ago. I’m not sure the screen size requirements (I’ve seen some cars put it in the rear view mirror, which was kinda cool actually) but since most cars need a screen now to support that, and higher trim levels will use that screen for other things, and making multiple pieces of hardware for the same car is an annoyance for car makers, you’ll probably see a screen on most cars. Just FYI.
Go test drive some cars that aren’t Teslas. None of them require phone apps. Pretty sure all the manufacturers are also walking back the touch screen nonsense and I think Kia is the best in the US right now for EVs with physical buttons.
I truly feel sorry for anybody that is in the not sweet spot I guess the sour spot of not being able to select the vehicle of their choice due to economic factors, and being forced to buy one of these used pieces of shit that is replete with garbage technology that does not serve the user in any meaningful way. Oh my God, I’ve never one from that generation and I never will, and I consider myself blessed. Just operating a microwave nowadays is torture, give me a fucking chunky button and let me press the fucking thing.
Does it have microphones, other surveillance sensors, and internet access?
Because if this baby is airgapped, I’m buying.
the latest Citroën e-c3 is super-stripped. physical key, no frills at all. the range also takes a hit to keep costs down though.
I hate the mentality of “people who don’t want premium features just can’t afford them”. No bro we don’t want them because they suck.
I was given a smart watch yesterday
I wore it for 20 minutes and immediately gave it to a crack addict
All the fking doodads that exist nowadays are just trash - I literally cannot comprehend why anybody wants them in their life! They do not really seem to add anything, they’re just a meaningless trifling distraction and another shiny toy that ends up in the trash heap, as far as I can see
You’re certainly welcome to your opinion, any new doodad that’s one persons shiny new toy that ends up in a trash heap is someone else’s useful tool.
Personally I could argue my smarremovedch is better than my phone: it can do almost every phone can, almost everything I used to carry a wallet for, plus warn me if I’m dead …. And it doesn’t let me waste an evening doom scrolling
this is true. (source: I was the watch recipient and am addicted to the “crack” version of cocaine)
Carice is a cool option.
An old school, no frills sports car, that happens to be all electric.Sure, they’re hand built to order. But in that class, they’re surprising cheep. Less than €50K if I recall
Imagine an early 2000s car running on an electric motor. That’s what I want.
Step one: Buy 2000s car.
Step two: Converted it to EV.
Step three: Done!There are business made on this promise with more or less benefits of economies of scale.
You can find videos how people do it on YouTube.
Example: https://www.fellten.com/system/mini
The Kona EV still has physical controls for the A/C and other essential stuff. It uses a key fob though, just like most regular cars nowadays. But at least it’s not a card or something.
Sweet fuck I’ve been over in the Canada boards for too long. You have no idea how much “No Frills EV” just hurt my brain lmao. Worst part is, my brain out the capitals there.
VW sold the e-Golf in the US between 2015 and 2019, which was available with physical key and no-frills interior - some base models even sported an analog instrument cluster!
The profit margins on cheap cars isn’t high enough yet to introduce EVs at that price.
Closest you can probably get is the Corolla hybrid base model. It’s not full EV and sadly isn’t even a plugin hybrid.
The profit margins on cheap cars isn’t high enough yet to introduce EVs at that price.
What price? OP does not talk about cost at any point, they only require specific features.
“No frills”
Right now EVs come with frills. The leaf, bolt, and that Mitsubishi golf cart were the no-frills EVs.
There actually are super cheap evs at the no frills used car market price, they’re just illegal to import in the us due to protectionist policies.
What do you mean? Dacia Spring exists and it starts at £15k. That’s pretty much a budget petrol car price.
I’m only aware of US market.
